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March 24, 2011

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Kenneth Seigler

One should also consider Google:
"Law of seven eights"

flyguy

What a bunch of bullcrap!!! Recs, along with pier fishermen and clients of rec guides will be able to keep a legal creel of any fish with gamefish status. It happens all the time on the Roanoke River near Weldon. Rec guides take their clients fishing for stripers, and the clients can keep a legal creel of them until all harvest is closed at the end of April for spawning. This is nothing more than lies and diversions made to confuse people from the truth. Sean McKeon, the head of the NCWU, and the writer of this article should be ashamed of themselves for lying through their teeth. It's obvious that this bunch will do whatever it takes to kill what the majority wants, including lying to legislators and the people. Shame on you.

And by the way, since when were jon boat and kayak fishermen ever considered rich? That's an arrogant stand for someone so presumptuous.

Kenneth Seigler

If were are to protect them we must at minimum consider protecting from those who are taking the most fish and have the greatest impact on our fisheries should we flyguy?

If we are to have gamefish status lets have it as you guys have argued so many times. Lets have it so they are truly protected, and not just taking them from one mans pocket and putting them in another.

Afterall, isn't that what gamefish means, NO-ONE takes them without exception.

Ray

Striped bass are already game fish in inland waters and recreational anglers can keep them when the season is in. The same thing with speckled trout and red drum. They are already game fish in inland waters and can be kept.

Whoever is saying that recs couldn't keep them if declared game fish is passed is simply wrong.

flyguy

Wrong Ken. As Ray said, they are already ganefish in inland waters, and recs keep them legally all the time.

As far as your demand to limit recs, that is just crazy. It is a public resource that should be made available to the public first, before any consideration is made for taking the resource for profit.

And contrary to downeast popular opinion, no one is not letting you fish after this passes. You just won't be able to sell them. You will have the exact same access and creel limits as I do, in a public resource. This will eliminate the targeting and waste, I assure you. Having a price on their heads makes it too easy to abuse it.

Kenneth Seigler

Obviously neither of you understand the meaning of the word "IF".

But "IF" it were as it was a few years back. In inland waters only game fish could be kept while fishing under the Wildlife license.
So what do a few slick minded individuals do, they set out to make specs. and reds gamefish in inland waters.
Prior to that, the hook-n-line crew could not keep any saltwater fish period because they weren't gamefish.
So what has occurred, is called feathering your own nest, and has absolutely nothing to do with resource management.
If it did specks would not be in the shape they are now, and you would have had a one fish baglimit 5 years ago before the slaughter started.

Kenneth Seigler

And one more time for those who wish to see and know the truth of what gamefish is about and see what CCA has done to every fish resource they have touched with the term "gamefish", post the following into you web-browser and you will see the scientific facts surrounding the issue.
Simple fact, the numbers don't lie do they Ray or Chuck?

Here's you link:

http://cid-546d30065d9251c2.skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?resid=546D30065D9251C2!152

flyguy

Not only are you paranoid, but crazy as an outhouse rat to think that gamefish will alone make those species off limits to recs. It is nothing but a scare tactic.

As for feathering one's cap, it will be a long time before recs in this state can ever catch up with the shenanigans that have happened in this state under Basnight and his cronies, better known as the fish house owners on the MFC.

Twenty years of mismanagement and cronyism have finally culminated the perfect storm for demand of fisheries management reform. I hear thunder now, so the old guard is about to blown out to sea.

Kenneth Seigler

Chuck, why do you always have to resort to personal attacks and name calling, cause it's the internet bully tact your crowd are best at when faced with scientific fact and truth, deflect and avoid.

The numbers don't lie good ole' boy, and you know it.

You guys can't stand when you have to play by the rules at of the Commission. You have to resort to contorted twisted have truths and force them on the public like CCA has always done.

CCA ask for reform and you got in 1997 Fisheries Reform Act, and now you don't even want to play by your own rules.

Wanna be 'sportsman' Chuck, cause you don't have a clue what the word even means. Go back to your little internet blog world were you are lord and king, free to boot people if they don't agree with you.

If I were a legislature on either side of the fence I would be insulted by H353 gamefish bill. Why don't you go ahead and tell legislatures the truth, that CCA lied in 1997 and their lying right now too.

Now back to the shadows with you CCA demons of the darkside.

Kenneth Seigler

Just one more question Chuck, when you say "the majority wants", as you did in you first post, just exactly whom are you referring too, cause a hand full of sour grapes don't make up no majority by a long shot my freind.

CCA says they represent recreational fishermen, and just how many is that Chuck, the 7 guys who frequent your little internet blog telling lies and stirring up more trouble.

Recreational fishermen, charter boats, and guides been here along time before CCA showed up. So now CCA wants to take credit for all the hard work that those people put into building that facet of the industry. Those people been workin' here along time before CCA showed up, and low and behold the majority of them I know don't agree with you, or CCA tactics, or what they say either.

The commission is set up 3 Comm., 3 Rec., 1 Bio, and two at large.

The fact that there are a number of recreational fishermen that don't always agree with CCA should tell you something.

But, as long as you go around with blinders on suppose it's kinda' hard to see anything at all.

Coastalblondie

When have we forgotten to be thankful, greatful, and appreciative? We thank the good Lord for the gifts he has bestowed upon us on this earth. We thank the farmer who gives us milk, eggs, beef, poultry, and so on and so forth. All of which those services have been provided to us by them since biblical times. Fisherman have provided services alike since that time also. When did we forget to thank them for all their hard work? You scorn them for believing in their heritage and livelihood. How have commercial fisherman become the shoulders to bare the weight of the mistakes of so many when they are so few? I believe a bite of HUMBLE PIE is in order. Chew it slowly. Commercial fishermen are held accountable for every pound of fish they catch while recreational fishermen are left to play in the playground... held accountable for nothing. Their catch numbers are just guessimates. This leaves commercial fishermen holding the bag for all. How fair is that?

flyguy

You guys are nuts to think that commercial fishing should be considered the same as farming. Farmers cultivate crops through plowing, fertilizing and planting, and it is done on land they lease or own. A chicken farmer nurtures his chickens by feeding them and providing them a place to live without allowing foxes to raid the henhouse. What in the heck do the netters do besides take, take, take? They give nothing back to the resource and continually show nothing but utter contempt for any wildlife that dares to impede their route to the cash cow. It is a public resource first, and shouldn't be held hostage by those who wish to privatize it for profit.

As far as your senseless rambling Kenneth, you don't have a clue what you are talking about. You spout off a bunch of nonsense without knowing what it means. For twenty years, you guys have raped the estuaries, and now are acting like children (with lies and deceptions) when the adults have taken over and demand better in protecting the resource first over the income streams of a few. Get over it.

Chuck Laughridge

Ken,

Chuck is not posting, if he did it would be under his name or his name would be made known to the folks on the forum.

While I have viewed this site like others for some time, I have no problem with folks knowing where I stand on an issue whether they agree with me or think I'm full of it!

Going back to lurking now, so have a good day, Ken.

Good Fishing!!! (this look familiar to you Ken)

Coastalblondie

Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house. You claim commercial fishermen are childish and ignorant. You rant on about "being the only adults" in this situation. Hmmm, sounds to me more like you need to walk a mile or 2 in a commercial fishermans' shoes. Pointing your fingers and degrading, alone, is childish and immature. Get that boulder off your shoulder. Again, don't throw stones when you live in a glass house.

flyguy

@Coastalblondie: You have no idea where or what I have done in my life. This is the usual presumptuous attitude exhibited by those who wish to continue the status quo. I didn't call anyone ignorant, and didn't call all commercial fishermen childish. I said that the people making these outlandish claims as were made in the article were IGNORANT (meaning uninformed) and CHILDISH (meaning throwing a temper tantrum without any sense of logic). Face it, times are changing. We all have to retool and adjust to changing times. In order to maintain a viable public resource, this 2% will have the price removed from their heads. You still have flounder, and I have no problem whatsoever in keeping that primarily a commercial fishery, as long as it is properly managed.

Kenneth Seigler

Chicken farmers you say?

You must mean "chicken of the sea" tuna right?

Incidentily the hook-n-line crowd took 23.3 million pounds in the past five years, commercials 8.6 million pounds.

CCA wants all the fish period, no doubt about it. Look at nearly any hook-n-line species you want to consider and you take the majority of those fish and point fingers at commercials.

Faced with the facts and truth and you still attempt lying you way out.
Now thats childish.

Kenneth Seigler

flyguy,
Exactly word for work, letter for letter thing CCA has sad in Florida and every other state.

The very second gamefish label is applied, you begin whinning and crying, "their killing the fish", in attempts to remove nets from the water.

That is and has always been the alter motive. Lure the public in with gamefish, then kill industry with it.

flyguy

2% Kenneth. Two of these species are supposed to be bycatch aka accidental profit. That is not a lie. After the striper debacle, most resource minded folks are sick of the shenanigans coming out of the MFC. All you do is make it out to be rec vs comm. After twenty years of this malfeasance, did you really think that after Basnight left Raleigh, that the pendulum would not swing in the opposite direction? CCA is using an economic argument. NCFA & NCWU is using scare tactics and lies. Legislators have taken note and are finally tuning Basnight out and tuning rec voters in.

Ray

Ken, like so many other posts in other places that you used to be able to post on, this one too is hurting, not helping your cause.

Gamefish status on these three fish will still allow every person who catches one to keep it for personal consumption if a season is open on them at the time. If not, then no one will be allowed to keep one unlike the current Speckled Trout rules where under a loop hole only commercial fishermen can keep one.

So don't point a finger at another group, and accuse them of wanting all the fish, when you are a member of a group that has that luxury now!

With that reality exposed, do you really not understand how foolish your post will read to those with the actual knowledge of what is going on. Legislators for an example!

Kenneth Seigler

flyguy, as usuall all you post is conjecture and innuendo. Try posting a little factual data so the public can see truth and facts for a change.

To help you out a little here is a little infor.

Rec. Dead Discards (number of fish) Atantic Ocean 2005-2009 five years: 7,322,646 fish.

Com. Dead Discars (number of fish) Atlantic Ocean 2005-2009 five years: 2,115,804 fish.

So you now want to refer to 250 dead fish as a "debacle"?

What do you call the hook-n-line 5 million dead fish over and beyond what commercials harvest, "accidental abuse"?


And if they don't have the ability to catch it Ray, just how are they suppossed to get?
Giving 100% of all the harvest to less than 3.5% of citizens(wealthy white men), while the majority 96.5%(citizens) keep paying taxes to maintain something they can't even get. Some how that just don't quite seem equitable.

Chuck, my sincere condolences. Hiding behind a mask does have it's draw backs doesn't it.

But, as the email I just received says,"You should see if you can convince flyguy to move to that CCA message board where he can be force feed a little more CCA garbage."

If I may suggest, you should break out that CCA book "The art of lies and deception" to assit.

Try doing a keyword search on the document using the words "truth" and "fact". And don't get discouraged if you get a message box that says "unable to find a refernce in the document", just keep trying cause to be sure there has got to something there.

Coastalblondie

Simply said, commercial fishermen are on the water to WORK while recreactional fishermen are out there to PLAY. As far as being presumptuous, no I am not. I have been on both sides of this fence. I am neither ignorant nor naive. Let me ask this question. What about the people who don't want to go out and buy a boat just to go catch a hand full of fish 3 or 4 times a year? Or the people who can't afford to pay the cost of a half day trip on a charter boat? Or the people who CAN'T get on a boat? They will now have to go to a restaurant and pay for thawed imported fish while you bob up and down in your glorious Fountain outside the inlet reeling in your quadruple hooked lines all full of red drum, trout, or bass. Most of which will be thrown back because 1) you've already caught your limit 2) you're in it for the sport.
Fishing is not a luxury to commercial fishermen. It's life. Many of them now are being FORCED out of their jobs, and have been for many years. So before you spout on about what they are taking from YOU, think about what you are taking from THEM. All for your FUN and SPORT.

Chuck Laughridge

Ken, the casting terrible comments my way on this site doesn't differ much from other sites where you were shown the door, but one more time, and read this slowly----

-- if I post on a site I do it under my own name or my profile lists my name on those sites that allow a "user name".

Feel free to have the admins of this site check my IP, or the link automatically linked when I listed my URL.

I am not the one casting aspersions your way, although you do make it quite easy, so please debate and argue away with a nameless adversary. I'd prefer you do it directly with me if you choose, but identify your target before you pull the trigger. This ain't gill-netting, it is species specific.

Thanks for understanding.

Good fishing!!! (look familiar)

Kenneth Seigler


Chuck, as always your assumptions of the commercial industry are laden with nothing but conjecture with no factual data presented, leading to yet another pointless button to be pushed and so on....resulting in again more innuendo, with no factual numbers presented solely intended to mislead and leave the general public with yet more half truths and misinformation to be absorbed.
So exactly what is the point in even attempting to debate with you as nothing you present is based on factual data or circumstances?


Rick Caton

This all could have been avoided had we had sane fisheries management.....pretty sad that this is the best we can do in the 21st Century
You can't poop in the punch bowl but so many times till someone will take the punch bowl away
God Save Us all

Kenneth Seigler

Democracy at it's best, only seems reasonable that every citizen is given time in the process to comment and be heard by a fair minder balanced panel basing their decisions on scientific fact, instead of rules dictated by a supreme leader.

nags head waterman

@flyguy: can you explain how in the eez(three mile state waters boundary)gamefish status has completly closed the door to all fisherman recreational and commercial to the opportunity to keep a striped bass period but somehow under state gamefish status you feel the recreational fisherman will still be able to keep a portion of what they catch? after a few phone calls and a little research i found to be fact that if this bill(hb353)is passed into law no one will be able to keep a single fish no matter what the season is. flyguy along with alot of his peers in the chater fishing business have in fact stirred a pot that ultimately will damage their charter trip numbers. if this bill passes which it probably will not the charter industry will most likely take the biggest hit not the few commercial fisherman that already have such a small part of the fishery can barely call it profitable. a true case of getting what you ask for. the problem is that the mojority of the charter fishing operaters that do not wish to shoot their business in the foot are going to pay for the request of the few. the few will pay also. this bill is set to cripple the charter fishing industry on the outer banks. what do you do for a living flyguy? i'am not a charter fisherman i just find it funny how the few can be so misinformed on the facts of what they are trying shove through the house for what they feel will benifit their business no matter what the cost to the commercial watermen who take so little in comparision to the rec. fishing community.

Chuck Laughridge

Please call Speaker Thillis's office and ask the Speaker of the House about the charterboat issue on clients keeping fish. If he is unavailable, ask Rhonda to put you in touch with Charles or Bill and tell her Chuck said hello!

If you have trouble getting through, take my word for it --- it ain't so!

Good Fishing!!!

nags head waterman

Chuck,
thank you for all the insight and presenting the information in the form of a lesson, although i personally did not extract a lesson from your input. however i do understand that the bill can be rewritten to make charter/guide business owners exempt from the rules to benifit well "the wealthy white men". my question is,how in your infinite wisdom do you feel that it is beneficial allowing the private sector(rec. fisherman) and charter/guide operators who in fact account for 80 percent of striped bass landings to continue to keep rec. limits under this new bill hb353? i would think if your a true conservationist the argument for gamefish status would be to eliminate all fish mortality for the three species therefore if you cant keep them commercially for conservation measures the private sector should have to practice the same protocal. only seems fair. or do you agree this only helps the "wealthy white men"?

Kenneth

And they say white men can't jump.....I say unless their fixin' to get run over by a 65' Hatteras Yacht.

jamie reibel

chuck, once again thanks for all you have done for me and my family. will adress your concerns (from game fish designation would be injust and unfair) slowly and 1 at a time. #1 all the other states aren't thrilled with JEA, ask the dep.of texas fish and game. texas wants JEA gone, but they said once you got it, you got it. texas has 9 mile jurisdiction into the gulf, conflicts constantly arise between the texas regs. and fed. regs., guess who wins, the fed. gov. wins. by stripping fed. permits from texas citizens legally fishing in texas waters. no nc does not need the money from the fed. gov. to impose law that nc does not agree with, STATES RIGHTS. #2 walter fonderen paid the general assembly's of texas and louissianna off, and created the cca. if those two answers are incorrect, i'am sure that you or ken seig. will correct me. as always, NC LEG. BESTOWS RESOURCE TO WEALTHY WHITE MEN.
jamie reibel

Chuck Laughridge

Jamie, y'all have plenty of targets to attack on any piece of legislation, as do folks on both sides of any bill. Just not sure if I was a charter fishermen that I'd use the "WEALTHY WHITE MEN" approach unless you and quite a few of your peers are ready for that one to turn back and bite you. Besides, ain't nobody as wealthy since the last year of Bush and the fist 2 of Obama!!!

As far as where NC needs money from, or from whom, you may have just defined a large part of the allocation to gamefish undertaken by every state from Texas to SC from way back in the 1980s.

Good luck with Ken as your counsel, he's a good and passionate man, just sometimes a "tid" off the mark, but ain't we all!

Good Fishing!!!

Kenneth

Chuck, you just like a fella I know down this way, would never take or steal anything from from anyone, cause he always turns the cork over and looks at the name before he pulls the pot.

John Rentz

Kenneth Seigler,

You have some interesting points but your use of the term "White men" is a racial pejorative of the worst sort. Please drop the race terms, as it does nothing to bolster you arguments.

Kenneth

John Rentz,

Not racial in the least, rather an exact narative description of the person being addressed, perjorative accepted, as was intent.

Jake Fido

The antithetical ROBIN HOODS are at it again! Senators Davis and Rabon are proving King John right! Senate Bill 571 would repeal the Subsistance License Waiver. The waiver allows low income individuals residing in NC to fish in salt water for free. While NY state is repealing its salt water fishing license altogether, NC lawmakers are repealing the MAGNA-CHARTA! The fish are for the wealthy! Long live King John!

Kenneth

Jake its about how many paying customers they have, and free licenses apparently don't count toward those W/B funds.

"This is becoming an increasing problem as other states adjust their license structures to maximize the number of paid license holders they certify for federal aid and thus recover a greater proportion of the excise taxes on tackle and motor boat fuel taxes paid by anglers."

http://brevardmarine.blogspot.com/2011/02/senate-bill-744-recreational-fishing.html

~

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